March Madness = Conquer Madness extra discussion

[benga]

Mod Edit (dk): This is not a sign-up thread. Some extra discussion from the tournament sign-up thread has been moved here to de-clutter the original tournament thread.



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[shoop76]

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Why? This is a larger tournament that might need some extra time to fill. Wouldn't it be better to give it some extra time. I know in the past there have been exceptions made.

[Elaterate]

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Ya I was told by a few players that the "30 days" policy is given extra time if needed which I figured I would need since I need 120 players for this but if you want to move this thread into a different area of the forums so the players can try to sign up for this elsewhere..... ok I guess. I am currently in a tournament that took more then 30 days to fill so I'm a little confused why you would automatically try to move this thread.

[Dukasaur]

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Ya I was told by a few players that the "30 days" policy is given extra time if needed which I figured I would need since I need 120 players for this but if you want to move this thread into a different area of the forums so the players can try to sign up for this elsewhere..... ok I guess. I am currently in a tournament that took more then 30 days to fill so I'm a little confused why you would automatically try to move this thread.

As I said above, yes exceptions can be made. However, if you need an exception, it's up to you to write a PM to benga and ask nicely for one, not to just assume that one will be granted.

[Elaterate]

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Ya I was told by a few players that the "30 days" policy is given extra time if needed which I figured I would need since I need 120 players for this but if you want to move this thread into a different area of the forums so the players can try to sign up for this elsewhere..... ok I guess. I am currently in a tournament that took more then 30 days to fill so I'm a little confused why you would automatically try to move this thread.

As I said above, yes exceptions can be made. However, if you need an exception, it's up to you to write a PM to benga and ask nicely for one, not to just assume that one will be granted.

said above? Apologies for not going through the proper channels to get an exception but again, I'm pretty new here so was under the impression that the "exception" was given when a tournament is coming close to it's 30 days and is not quite full yet.... not that I had to go ask permission to have a sign up last more then 30 days from the start because if this fills before 30 days then I would run it before the date in which I stated I wanted it to start by. But again, let's just squash it like Benga suggested and move it to a different part of the forums so there is no more of this back and forth.

[Dukasaur]

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Ya I was told by a few players that the "30 days" policy is given extra time if needed which I figured I would need since I need 120 players for this but if you want to move this thread into a different area of the forums so the players can try to sign up for this elsewhere..... ok I guess. I am currently in a tournament that took more then 30 days to fill so I'm a little confused why you would automatically try to move this thread.

As I said above, yes exceptions can be made. However, if you need an exception, it's up to you to write a PM to benga and ask nicely for one, not to just assume that one will be granted.

said above? Apologies for not going through the proper channels to get an exception but again, I'm pretty new here so was under the impression that the "exception" was given when a tournament is coming close to it's 30 days and is not quite full yet.... not that I had to go ask permission to have a sign up last more then 30 days from the start because if this fills before 30 days then I would run it before the date in which I stated I wanted it to start by. But again, let's just squash it like Benga suggested and move it to a different part of the forums so there is no more of this back and forth.

Sorry, I guess the first time was in my PM to shoop, not in the thread.

But yeah, just ask benga nicely for some extra time and he's probably quite willing to grant it.

If you want to sever the discussion part of this thread from the sign-up part, I can do that for you. We can move the discussion part to Discussions, leave the Sign-up part here. If that's acceptable then I can do that now.

[Mad777]

Not that I want to sound negative, but your dates and forecast per phase is a bit out of the reality, sending all those games each week will create a pretty high game load.
Any expectation on player game load for Phase 1 for instance? Team games last longer than many other game type and based on my experience running big scale tournament (like this one), I can tell than this format will take more than you think.
As an advice I would encourage to request many reserve per registered team, or at least lay out a game load, time frame this event will last.
CC large tournament those days are tough to maintain above the water because only a small amount of players are willing to stay in a tournament for a year or more, seeing you plan on recruiting 120 players (I guess this is without the reserve amount I suggested above), this number will go down after couple of months, there is nothing wrong at all setting something up like you have done and I'm only bringing experience in a form of advices here for you to be prepare.

CC needs this kind of event with no doubt, but be sure you to check here to have an idea when large scale upcoming CC event to start and will undoubtly take player away from the casual tournament scene.

Good luck with your project

[Elaterate]

Not that I want to sound negative, but your dates and forecast per phase is a bit out of the reality, sending all those games each week will create a pretty high game load.
Any expectation on player game load for Phase 1 for instance? Team games last longer than many other game type and based on my experience running big scale tournament (like this one), I can tell than this format will take more than you think.
As an advice I would encourage to request many reserve per registered team, or at least lay out a game load, time frame this event will last.
CC large tournament those days are tough to maintain above the water because only a small amount of players are willing to stay in a tournament for a year or more, seeing you plan on recruiting 120 players (I guess this is without the reserve amount I suggested above), this number will go down after couple of months, there is nothing wrong at all setting something up like you have done and I'm only bringing experience in a form of advices here for you to be prepare.

CC needs this kind of event with no doubt, but be sure you to check here to have an idea when large scale upcoming CC event to start and will undoubtly take player away from the casual tournament scene.

Good luck with your project

I will quote one line from above twice.... "CC needs this kind of event with no doubt"


But after the PM I received from Dukasaur you can go ahead and just close this tournament completely I guess

[Elaterate]

Not that I want to sound negative, but your dates and forecast per phase is a bit out of the reality, sending all those games each week will create a pretty high game load.
Any expectation on player game load for Phase 1 for instance? Team games last longer than many other game type and based on my experience running big scale tournament (like this one), I can tell than this format will take more than you think.
As an advice I would encourage to request many reserve per registered team, or at least lay out a game load, time frame this event will last.
CC large tournament those days are tough to maintain above the water because only a small amount of players are willing to stay in a tournament for a year or more, seeing you plan on recruiting 120 players (I guess this is without the reserve amount I suggested above), this number will go down after couple of months, there is nothing wrong at all setting something up like you have done and I'm only bringing experience in a form of advices here for you to be prepare.

CC needs this kind of event with no doubt, but be sure you to check here to have an idea when large scale upcoming CC event to start and will undoubtly take player away from the casual tournament scene.

Good luck with your project

Also Mad777... I must have done a shit job explaining this because game load for phase 1 is only 1 game/week for 4 out of the 5 players.

phase 2 would have been 1 game a week per player and the final stage is the only stage where players would be getting more then 1 invite at a time. The dates where just projections, nothing set in stone. I obviously would have to wait for all games to finish from one stage to the next before moving on which I gave 'predicted' dates that would be almost 2 weeks after the last invites went out from each stage.

[iAmCaffeine]

I'd join but this will never fill.

[Mad777]

Dude, why are you taking all this bad??? You are saying to be kind of new organizing and all it takes from those posts is using as advice.

When I spoke about game load is considering a time a quad, triple or dub usually take (you can easily check using the game finder to have an idea with time stamp from the log), with this and knowing each week a player will play at least one game, then per the amount of round in phase one it would give you a better idea. A quad game can run for at least a month if not 2, therefore while the first game still going on a player may end up with many more game...as said many players don’t mind but when you run a team of 5-6 players, you may end up with a team mate who becomes overwhelmed and will have to found reserve or worth case scenario a team may withdraw, I’m not inventing anything, check the “Workd Cup of Risk” from the ongoing section, this one has changed TO already and she is about to perhaps drop it because after couple of months only she is facing several drop.

Again this is just to help you understanding the actual status of CC and the casual side of the tournament, 120 players is a lot and if you haven’t done a pre work recruiting at least half from the general section with the mention of how long could it potentially run then you will be struggling...this could perhaps be prevented if you have a plan B that use reduced team amount just to be on the safe side.

Don’t be afraid, just take advice as positive...

[shoop76]

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I don't understand this Benga, this tournament has been up since June 4th and no message from you

https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 0&t=227789

Ours has been up for less than 6 hours and a post from you already, threatening to close the thread.

I understand everyone's concern, but we don't know if these are real issues until we see if there is interest. Yes the tournament can be amended for less players. Its only 1 to 2 games a week. A majority should end within 2 weeks. As the structure stands it should end within a year. Of course there will be players that leave, but if that happens teams can pick up a reserve.

Let's see what happens. tournaments has very few good elaborate tournaments anymore. There is no TPA or Championships or many of the other tournaments that have been run in the past. It would be nice to have some support.

[Elaterate]

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I don't understand this Benga, this tournament has been up since June 4th and no message from you

https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 0&t=227789

Ours has been up for less than 6 hours and a post from you already, threatening to close the thread.

I understand everyone's concern, but we don't know if these are real issues until we see if there is interest. Yes the tournament can be amended for less players. Its only 1 to 2 games a week. A majority should end within 2 weeks. As the structure stands it should end within a year. Of course there will be players that leave, but if that happens teams can pick up a reserve.

Let's see what happens. tournaments has very few good elaborate tournaments anymore. There is no TPA or Championships or many of the other tournaments that have been run in the past. It would be nice to have some support.

Has he responded to this? I've asked more then once in PMs and got no answer

[benga]

Is this enroll or discussion thread?

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I don't understand this Benga, this tournament has been up since June 4th and no message from you

https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 0&t=227789

Ours has been up for less than 6 hours and a post from you already, threatening to close the thread.

I understand everyone's concern, but we don't know if these are real issues until we see if there is interest. Yes the tournament can be amended for less players. Its only 1 to 2 games a week. A majority should end within 2 weeks. As the structure stands it should end within a year. Of course there will be players that leave, but if that happens teams can pick up a reserve.

Let's see what happens. tournaments has very few good elaborate tournaments anymore. There is no TPA or Championships or many of the other tournaments that have been run in the past. It would be nice to have some support.

Has he responded to this? I've asked more then once in PMs and got no answer

This tournament has been added to database and seems you are pushing some unknown agenda. Everything has been explained and not sure what else you want.

[shoop76]

Is this enroll or discussion thread?

If you are starting 21.10. then this thread will be closed till 21.09.

There is a 30 days enroll policy.

I don't understand this Benga, this tournament has been up since June 4th and no message from you

https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 0&t=227789

Ours has been up for less than 6 hours and a post from you already, threatening to close the thread.

I understand everyone's concern, but we don't know if these are real issues until we see if there is interest. Yes the tournament can be amended for less players. Its only 1 to 2 games a week. A majority should end within 2 weeks. As the structure stands it should end within a year. Of course there will be players that leave, but if that happens teams can pick up a reserve.

Let's see what happens. tournaments has very few good elaborate tournaments anymore. There is no TPA or Championships or many of the other tournaments that have been run in the past. It would be nice to have some support.

Has he responded to this? I've asked more then once in PMs and got no answer

This tournament has been added to database and seems you are pushing some unknown agenda. Everything has been explained and not sure what else you want.

Not sure what you are talking about Benga, seems it may the agenda may be on your side. You threaten to lock the signups for the tournament not filling up quickly enough whilst the thread just went up. You let other tournaments remain open for more than 30 days without even posting a comment. You could have easily sent a pm in this case.

Now with this people do not know what is going on with this tournament. As tournament director you should be supportive of others running tournaments especially in a time when there are very few tournaments and tournament organisers. Now you are potentially alienating a very eager and creative new organiser.

[Elaterate]

Is this enroll or discussion thread?

If you are starting 21.10. then this thread will be closed till 21.09.

There is a 30 days enroll policy.

I don't understand this Benga, this tournament has been up since June 4th and no message from you

https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 0&t=227789

Ours has been up for less than 6 hours and a post from you already, threatening to close the thread.

I understand everyone's concern, but we don't know if these are real issues until we see if there is interest. Yes the tournament can be amended for less players. Its only 1 to 2 games a week. A majority should end within 2 weeks. As the structure stands it should end within a year. Of course there will be players that leave, but if that happens teams can pick up a reserve.

Let's see what happens. tournaments has very few good elaborate tournaments anymore. There is no TPA or Championships or many of the other tournaments that have been run in the past. It would be nice to have some support.

Has he responded to this? I've asked more then once in PMs and got no answer

This tournament has been added to database and seems you are pushing some unknown agenda. Everything has been explained and not sure what else you want.

When someone asks a question, multiple times, and they don't get an answer... their "agenda" is to find the answer to the question. Pretty simple

[benga]

Not sure why I am still wasting my time with this but here goes:

• I asked a legit question and you both feel threatened, not sure why
• I don't remember any tournament in my career that was given this much time in advance without confirmation from TD
• I have been nothing but supportive to Elaterate and I don't plan to give any exceptions just cause he feels he has the right
• I have also personally added him to TO group to hear of any ideas he has so we can bring back CC Championship back and you shoop were also part of that group so by saying I am not supportive makes me wonder is there any other agenda

This is my final statement about this, if you wish to pursue this go to higher channels.

[Elaterate]

Not sure why I am still wasting my time with this but here goes:

• I asked a legit question and you both feel threatened, not sure why
• I don't remember any tournament in my career that was given this much time in advance without confirmation from TD
• I have been nothing but supportive to Elaterate and I don't plan to give any exceptions just cause he feels he has the right
• I have also personally added him to TO group to hear of any ideas he has so we can bring back CC Championship back and you shoop were also part of that group so by saying I am not supportive makes me wonder is there any other agenda

This is my final statement about this, if you wish to pursue this go to higher channels.

Well since Benga still feels the need to not use PMs to answer a simple question and now wants to try and publicly shame me by saying I thought I was special and could get a special rights without asking for it....


You're not sure why we feel threatened even though we both have explained it to you MULTIPLE TIMES?

YOU STILL HAVEN'T ANSWERED THE MAIN QUESTION!!!.... among other questions left unanswered.

"I don't plan to give any exceptions just cause he feels he has the right" --- THIS tells me that you completely disregarded my PM's explaining, MULTIPLE TIMES, how it was a simple WORDING ERROR in my thread because I DID NOT FEEL LIKE I HAD THE RIGHT TO ANY EXCEPTIONS.

But now you feel like you have to publicly shame me by announcing that I felt I had special rights without asking permission

And you think you have the right to add me to a group I didn't ask to be added to?

Sounds like you're just trying to make yourself look good by telling everyone how "supportive" you've been.

Here is the story summed up as best I can...

You said this Tournament was too SMALL. Dukasaur and many others are saying it's too BIG. I tried to let you have this idea for your big CC Championship but you again said it was too SMALL. I asked how to change it to fit what you are thinking cause IF it didn't tie into your idea and was too small then I wanted to run with it myself and your response was merely "run whatever you want".... instead of trying to work with me on your idea.

So I ran with it myself and then HOURS later you post in the Thread you are going to move it because you felt it was in the wrong section of the forums.... I have made this mistake in the past and YOU sent me a PM asking if it was a mistake and it was moved but this time you felt the need to post in the thread instead of using a PM like you have in the past.

We simply asked you why you didn't use a PM and you refuse to answer that question but instead you continue to respond with how I thought I had special rights even though I have explained, multiple times, that it was a wording error ON MY PART.... which means I have admitted to being partly at fault here, something you said, via PM, I haven't taken responsibility for

[Dukasaur]

You threaten to lock the signups for the tournament not filling up quickly enough whilst the thread just went up.

Shoop, we all know that you don't like benga and apparently Elaterate doesn't like either me or benga. Nonetheless we all have to coexist here so let's try to be civil. Civility begins with not using inflammatory language. You keep saying you were threatened and it just isn't so. Benga didn't make any "threats". His post quite clearly

1. asked if this was a sign-up thread or a discussion thread (a question which was never explicitly answered) and
2. indicated that if this is a sign-up thread the 30-day clock started ticking.

That's a reasonable question for him to ask and a reasonable comment for him to make. It's not any kind of "threat" nor does it close the door on asking for an extension. In fact, in his very first PM on the subject, benga clarified that he had no problem with granting an extension if he was asked.

In addition to benga clearly indicating that he was willing to grant an extension, I also offered (in a PM to Elat) to help your recruitment efforts by headlining this. I also offered to split this thread so that we get a nice neat recruitment thread and all of this discussion can go into a seperate thread in the Discussions subforum. Neither of my offers was accepted.

I spent hours writing several messages trying to get Elat to bury the hatchet and put this behind us, but to no avail. I eventually gave up.

So the ball is in your court, shoop. You and I have dealt with each other many times and you know I always try to be fair and work out what is best for the players. If you need an extension on the time, benga is quite willing to do it. If you want me to split this thread and move all this discussion to another place so you can have the sign-up thread tabula rasa, I will gladly do that. All you need to do is ask. If you want me to headline this at some point, I'll do that too. Just ask. But I do ask that you two stop this false narrative about how you were "threatened". It's pejorative and false. There was nothing except a routine matter-of-fact notation by benga that the clock was ticking, which only a really prejudiced view could turn in to a "threat."

[Elaterate]

You threaten to lock the signups for the tournament not filling up quickly enough whilst the thread just went up.

Shoop, we all know that you don't like benga and apparently Elaterate doesn't like either me or benga. Nonetheless we all have to coexist here so let's try to be civil. Civility begins with not using inflammatory language. You keep saying you were threatened and it just isn't so. Benga didn't make any "threats". His post quite clearly

1. asked if this was a sign-up thread or a discussion thread (a question which was never explicitly answered) and
2. indicated that if this is a sign-up thread the 30-day clock started ticking.

That's a reasonable question for him to ask and a reasonable comment for him to make. It's not any kind of "threat" nor does it close the door on asking for an extension. In fact, in his very first PM on the subject, benga clarified that he had no problem with granting an extension if he was asked.

In addition to benga clearly indicating that he was willing to grant an extension, I also offered (in a PM to Elat) to help your recruitment efforts by headlining this. I also offered to split this thread so that we get a nice neat recruitment thread and all of this discussion can go into a seperate thread in the Discussions subforum. Neither of my offers was accepted.

I spent hours writing several messages trying to get Elat to bury the hatchet and put this behind us, but to no avail. I eventually gave up.

So the ball is in your court, shoop. You and I have dealt with each other many times and you know I always try to be fair and work out what is best for the players. If you need an extension on the time, benga is quite willing to do it. If you want me to split this thread and move all this discussion to another place so you can have the sign-up thread tabula rasa, I will gladly do that. All you need to do is ask. If you want me to headline this at some point, I'll do that too. Just ask. But I do ask that you two stop this false narrative about how you were "threatened". It's pejorative and false. There was nothing except a routine matter-of-fact notation by benga that the clock was ticking, which only a really prejudiced view could turn in to a "threat."

Ok now I will take your request to move this to a discussion thread because the players have to go through to much of this garbage to be able to sign up now

"apparently Elaterate doesn't like either me or benga"..... I had NO problem with either of you until YOU called me a Martyr for trying to follow this rule that Benga wanted to be so Anal about. And the "problem" I have with Benga is he refuses to answer a simple question and now has decided to post publicly that I think I am special and can get special requests without asking permission (after multiple attempts to explain myself he completely disregarded my explanations by saying this)...."let's try to be civil"... lying about me on my tournament thread is being Civil?

"But I do ask that you two stop this false narrative"... but it's ok for Benga to do so?

"That's a reasonable question for him to ask and a reasonable comment for him to make"... Yes it is and my main question is why could this not have been done through a PM like it was done in the past.... but we still have not got that answer. We are not "continuing" to say we are threatened, I am asking a question that hasn't been answered, simply as that.

"Civility begins with not using inflammatory language".... calling someone a Martyr for trying to follow the rule that started all of this isn't using inflammatory lanuage? Or calling me a female over and over based on....??? Is being civil?

[Dukasaur]

Ok now I will take your request to move this to a discussion thread because the players have to go through to much of this garbage to be able to sign up now

Done.

** not a signup thread **

Only a thread for storing some peripheral discussions.

[Dukasaur]

"That's a reasonable question for him to ask and a reasonable comment for him to make"... Yes it is and my main question is why could this not have been done through a PM like it was done in the past.... but we still have not got that answer.

Sometimes people send PMs, sometimes people communicate directly in the thread. I like to use PMs when there might be confidential information involved and I like to use the thread when it's information that should be permanently preserved. Other than that, there's no particular reason for doing it one way or the other. There's no formal protocol for how people should communicate. Most people on this site use an eclectic mixture of PMs, Walls, Forum Posts, Chat rooms, and in some cases even outside email. Just because someone sent you a PM on a previous occasion doesn't mean they will always do it that way.

We are not "continuing" to say we are threatened, I am asking a question that hasn't been answered, simply as that.

Yes, you have continued to use the word "threat" even though you have been reassured repeatedly that there was no threat, just a matter-of-fact acknowledgement that the 30-day clock was ticking.

"Civility begins with not using inflammatory language".... calling someone a Martyr for trying to follow the rule that started all of this isn't using inflammatory lanuage?

You cancelled your other tournament because it was getting close to the 30 days, even though I reassured you repeatedly that the 30 days is no big deal. You could have asked for an extension, or you could have made a more vigorous effort to fill it. Cancelling it outright was pretty much the textbook definition of playing the martyr. That's just a statement of fact. Plus, I said that in a PM that only you could see. You're the one who felt it necessary to up the drama level by announcing it publicly.

Or calling me a female over and over based on....??? Is being civil?

It was my understanding that you were female. As soon as you informed me otherwise, I apologized and agreed to treat you according to your instructions. Three days later you're still banging on about it. What is this except an attempt to raise the drama level?

[shoop76]

Shoop, we all know that you don't like benga

I'm sorry Duk, but I wouldn't have expected this from you. You are taking something out of context that I sent you in a personal message. I wish it would have stayed there, but since it didn't I guess I need to address it. I have nothing against Benga, actually have never had any issues with him, I cannot say if Benga feels the same. The only thing I have encountered is that he often times does not respond to pm's or it takes him days to do so. I also, believe that he will have a very tough time bringing the tournament section back to relevance, especially since he seems to be doing most things on his own now. I hope he does well and brings us events that bring back interest to tournaments.

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Here you say that Benga just asked a simple question. Yes, the first line is a question. The next line is a statement that he is closing our thread for signups until the 21st. This has never been done for any other tournament. It wasn't needed. The tournament could have filled within 30 days. Maybe not, but then we could deal with it.