Aad0906 intentionally killing wrong target in assassin games [Noted] KA

[shoop76]

Accused: aad0906

The accused are suspected of:
Other: intentionally killing wrong target in assassin

Game number(s):

Game 24261257
Game 24228146
Game 24205753
Game 24205542
Game 24186669

These games are all part of the following tournament, https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=242854. Killing the wrong target can happen but is abuse of the game rules when it happens consistently.

The following is a quote from Aad in the thread.

A lot of players are so eager to go after their target, that they overextend themselves and don't defend well against being assassinated themselves. Sometimes I see players that are really weak, and instead of trying to recover and stay alive, they might still relentlessly pursue a target that they have no chance in assassinating. I build defenses and if my "assassin" gets too strong, I will attack my assassin instead of my target.

[aad0906]

Points:
Assassin gets 3, survival gets 1, killed gets 0
If you win by objective for some reason you get 2 and everyone else gets 1
if you win on 1 of your 4 picked maps you get a bonus point

So, I was very weak in a few games and guaranteed to be eliminated myself, but was able to recover 1 point by surviving, and I did.

I admit, these were no accidents. These were all instances of getting the 1-point incentive for staying alive. And I was reminded that I once filed a C&A myself when I lost a game after someone threw the game to gain an advantage in Tournament points so I agree that what I did here may have come across as hypocritical.

I'll take the warning, I won't do it again.

[king achilles]

Points:
Assassin gets 3, survival gets 1, killed gets 0
If you win by objective for some reason you get 2 and everyone else gets 1
if you win on 1 of your 4 picked maps you get a bonus point

So, I was very weak in a few games and guaranteed to be eliminated myself, but was able to recover 1 point by surviving, and I did.

I admit, these were no accidents. These were all instances of getting the 1-point incentive for staying alive. And I was reminded that I once filed a C&A myself when I lost a game after someone threw the game to gain an advantage in Tournament points so I agree that what I did here may have come across as hypocritical.

I'll take the warning, I won't do it again.

You have been quoted on this. I leave it up to the Tournament organizer on how they proceed from this.

[Lindax]

I feel I have to weigh in here: If you get 1 point for staying alive, can you really blame a player in a desperate situation to stay alive?

Lx

[shoop76]

I feel I have to weigh in here: If you get 1 point for staying alive, can you really blame a player in a desperate situation to stay alive?

Lx

It has been ruled before that you cannot play an individual game to benefit yourself for the overall scoreboard of a tournament. Even if its a tournament game rules apply unless stated in the tournament overview. I got warned for supposedly taking 1 game away from a player in an escalating tournament despite little evidence. Here it is clear as day that he has done it 5 times. Seems to me that this case is more severe.

[aad0906]

Noted or warned, bottom line is that I admitted the wrongdoing and that I won't do it again.

[j1mathman]

wow.

[Scarlet Lady]

Appendix
Post by Lindax » Wed Apr 13, 2022 2:55 pm

Appendix
Contents: Revisions to this handbook

Below a list of revisions to the tournament handbook.

A.- Revisions, April 14, 2022

1.- The following rule was added to Playing Community-Run Tournaments, section B, point 8:
1.- Exception to the rule: "Throwing games, or deliberately benefiting from thrown games, is forbidden." Since any tournament can be seen as one big game, game play in an individual game that may have been considered "game throwing" may be considered acceptable in a tournament if the actions taken by the player can be reasonably thought to have been able to benefit them in the tournament.
2.- It is not allowed to use this exception to manipulate the main scoreboard of a series of tournaments and/or events.

Unless the tournament is part of a series it looks like Aad0906 was entitled to throw the game for a point.

Just for clarification (which I don't think applies here), would a League be considered as a series of tournaments?

[Lindax]

I agree that doing it 5 times seems a bit over the top. Obviously the TO did not come up with the 1 point for surviving so that players would kill the wrong target. But again, can you blame a player for going for the 1 point? I guess the 1 point for surviving was not really a good idea.

Now the question is: Is killing the wrong target in an assassin game to gain 1 point "throwing a game"?

I don't think a league can be considered a series of tournaments, but I don't mind hearing arguments to the contrary.

Lx

[plurple]

I agree that doing it 5 times seems a bit over the top. Obviously the TO did not come up with the 1 point for surviving so that players would kill the wrong target. But again, can you blame a player for going for the 1 point? I guess the 1 point for surviving was not really a good idea.

Now the question is: Is killing the wrong target in an assassin game to gain 1 point "throwing a game"?

I don't think a league can be considered a series of tournaments, but I don't mind hearing arguments to the contrary.

Lx

You are correct as the TO in question I did not intend for the survival point to be used for people to attack and kill the wrong person. And in future assassin tournaments I will implement some rule that penalises excessive accidents. But at this time am unsure what that will look like So far ~3% of games end in an accident in my assassin tournaments but I have not investigated the games fully to see if they were indeed accidents or intentional abuse of my scoring. I take pride that I have not had an accident in my tournaments and those at the top of the score boards also have a low number of accidents in comparison to the game load so it doesn't seem to be a endemic issue.

[shoop76]

I agree that doing it 5 times seems a bit over the top. Obviously the TO did not come up with the 1 point for surviving so that players would kill the wrong target. But again, can you blame a player for going for the 1 point? I guess the 1 point for surviving was not really a good idea.

Now the question is: Is killing the wrong target in an assassin game to gain 1 point "throwing a game"?

I don't think a league can be considered a series of tournaments, but I don't mind hearing arguments to the contrary.

Lx

How could killing the wrong target not be throwing a game? I understand that it benefits a player for the scoreboard of this tournament. But, in the past the rulings have been consistent that you cannot play the scoreboard of a tournament unless its in the final round(s) of a tournament. This does not really happen in assassin tournaments, but more in tournaments with 8 player games where a player is trying to make sure a competitor doesn't score a win. They will attack to make sure that player doesn't win. This has always been against the rules according to the C&A team, even if it happens once. Just need to find consistency here so players know what they are up against. I have had several players over the years message with the question if they can attack or take out the 2nd place player in a tournament when they are leading and they cannot win the game. From what I gather they can do so if its the last or maybe 2nd to last game of a tournament.

[j1mathman]

I think some clarity from C&A here on what general ruling is vs. the TO's ruling would be helpful. Admitting to throwing 5 assassin games in a series? Seems to be bottom-tier sportsmanship from the player, and directly against the game rules in each individual instance (i.e. the listed purpose/ win condition of an assassin game). Think of an example in your favorite pro league and throwing games in tournaments/ end of season is not well taken.

[owenshooter]

So, the dude didn't play how you wanted him to play? King A won't say that what he did is wrong, because you can't really say that what he did was wrong! That alone should make you back off. The player was earning points, isn't that smart? So sorry that he is not playing how you want him to play, he didn't do anything wrong. I think he should tell you to kick rocks and continue to play how he wants to play. If everyone played how YOU wanted them to play, what would the point of playing the games be? You could just declare the winner at the drop based on what you want everyone to do.

The black jesus thinks this is a waste of everyone's time... The black jesus has spoken...-Jesus noir

[shoop76]

King A won't say that what he did is wrong

Actually, he did.

Aad writes:

I'll take the warning, I won't do it again.

King A responds (and puts above quote in bold):

You have been quoted on this.

It's not about how I wanted him to play. It's the fact that he is intentionally killing the person that is supposed to kill him. Just because this is a tournament game, game rules still apply. I really don't understand how so many people can think its ok to intentionally kill the wrong target in an assassin game. It's not the point of the game. You play to win the game to the very end.