Friends & Enemies & Enemies & That Other Guy - Wolves Won

[Loose Canon]

If we get into a Charle mindf**k situation Max whereby we go into night and D5 and you die tonight, I'm going to disregard your death and vote on my assessment of everything else.
That means at the moment I'm 52% Pepe is scum 48% PMC is scum.
I don't expect any new information will come out.
I'll string it out for at least a week unless Charle imposes another deadline at short notice.
At the end of the day while it might seem that if you died, it would be PMC who killed you and therefore I should vote to lynch PMC, I'm not going to play that mindf**k game.
That game has been played N3 kill leading into D4.
I'll almost certainly vote Pepe but only with 52% confidence.

But what are you going to do if I die Max?

You have the power.

[Loose Canon]

Is this a hint by Pepe that he is scum?

Empty spaces, what are we living for?
Abandoned places, I guess we know the score, on and on
Does anybody know what we are looking for?
Another hero, another mindless crime
Behind the curtain, in the pantomime
Hold the line
Does anybody want to take it anymore?
The show must go on
The show must go on, yeah
Inside my heart is breaking
My makeup may be flaking
But my smile, still, stays on
Whatever happens, I'll leave it all to chance
Another heartache, another failed romance, on and on
Does anybody know what we are living for?
I guess I'm learning
I must be warmer now
I'll soon be turning, round the corner now
Outside the dawn is breaking
But inside in the dark I'm aching to be free
The show must goon
The show must goon
Inside my heart is breaking
My makeup may be flaking
But my smile, still, stays on
My soul is painted like the wings of butterflies
Fairy tales of yesterday, grow but never die
I can fly, my friends
The show must goon
The show must goon
I'll face it with a grin
I'm never giving in
On with the show
I'll top the bill
I'll overkill
I have to find the will to carry on
On with the show
Show
Show must go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on

Oh yes Pepe is the Great Pretender

[PepeAtila]

Spoiler

[quote="pmchugh"][quote="pmchugh"]OK I got to the end. ... EW is probably scum, but pointless to try lynch him. If you are in either evil faction just shoot him. Cause if he is town he can catch you when he pays attention and if he is in the other faction he has high chances of guiding his team to success.

...
PMC is probably just town, catching up the way he did is townie - making reads as he goes? I dont like his read on me and getting two factions to aim for me but what can you do. I also dont like how ...

...

Firstly, totally agree on night kills. The other Scum faction can both shoot them and vote them out and I would definitely be targeting the other side.

If both scum shoot you, one less death
...

[/quote]

1. EW has zero defence from this, he can't bargain with the other scum team.
2. It was a very good idea and they listened to me
3. Doing so did not buy me town cred, because I easily could have been in the other scum team and said this. It had no benefit until they were all dead.
4. I was under some pressure and EW wasn't

Doing this would have been so stupid.

[/spoiler]

Max and Pepe I challenge you to explain how this is an interaction between scum mates.[/quote]

I don't understand...
Do you want me to explain why EW said that "PMC is probably just town, catching up the way he did is townie..."
or that after his night kill you explained that it was clear that EW was scum?

[PepeAtila]

How big!!! "Queen" is scum...

Just hear the music and relax

[pmchugh]

Spoiler

[quote="pmchugh"][quote="pmchugh"]OK I got to the end. ... EW is probably scum, but pointless to try lynch him. If you are in either evil faction just shoot him. Cause if he is town he can catch you when he pays attention and if he is in the other faction he has high chances of guiding his team to success.

...
PMC is probably just town, catching up the way he did is townie - making reads as he goes? I dont like his read on me and getting two factions to aim for me but what can you do. I also dont like how ...

...

Firstly, totally agree on night kills. The other Scum faction can both shoot them and vote them out and I would definitely be targeting the other side.

If both scum shoot you, one less death
...

1. EW has zero defence from this, he can't bargain with the other scum team.
2. It was a very good idea and they listened to me
3. Doing so did not buy me town cred, because I easily could have been in the other scum team and said this. It had no benefit until they were all dead.
4. I was under some pressure and EW wasn't

Doing this would have been so stupid.

[/spoiler]

Max and Pepe I challenge you to explain how this is an interaction between scum mates.[/quote]

I don't understand...
Do you want me to explain why EW said that "PMC is probably just town, catching up the way he did is townie..."
or that after his night kill you explained that it was clear that EW was scum?[/quote]

You seem yo be confused.

I said, "Scum please kill EW, he is probably in yhe other faction, here is why".

After that, Scum kill EW and he is revealed as wolf.

Whoever is left is EWs partner.

I am not suicidal nor insane. Why would I do this?

It's as close as you get in mafia to a smoking gun.

[pmchugh]

TL;DR

Max and Pepe I challenge you to explain how this is an interaction between scum mates.

Deception is scum's main weapon?

But the reason you deceive people is for advantage. If I managed to deceive people into believing you own a 2006 Ford Fiesta, that would not gain me anything.

Deceiving people into thinking I am unaligned with EW would also not have gained me anything while there were two mafia factions alive, and it contributed to his death.

[pmchugh]

One of the big things with sonic as scum was, he flip flopped, now, over the course of this game, many of us have changed our mind, but when we do there is rational reasons that it happens. Someone convinces you, you reread a few times, you realise a key bit of information. When sonic changed his mind there was no logic behind it, and it's the same for Pepe, this is because mafia don't change their vote for real reasons but for tactical reasons. Here are some examples:

Serious now: I have no clue, but looking for a reason it can be a good option put some fear on strike because of his name and try to get some information from him (L-2) vote Strike

Serious vote for strike, he says he is being serious and that its a good option.

Unvote

Its a joke wagon, come on!

I know it was a joke wagon, but why to unvote so fast?

It was a joke wagon, not serious. This contradicts.

Spoiler

[quote="PepeAtila"][quote="Loose Canon"][quote="PepeAtila"]I will wait a little because I have no idea what is the best thing to do, but if most people think we should vote lynch I will do it.

Come on Pepe put forward an argument with reasoning - any argument.

Perhaps you are asking too much... 'an argument with reasoning'' ?
sorry it is the charles bad joke effect...

Serious now: I have no clue, but looking for a reason it can be a good option put some fear on strike because of his name and try to get some information from him (L-2) vote Strike[/quote]

It's a joke wagon, Pepe. I mean I could change my name but then who would I be? Inigo Montoya? People would be expecting me to seek revenge on the man who murdered my father and quoting Mandy Patinkin from the movie. My father isn't even dead! Robin Hood? Stealing from the rich is a lot of pressure and I'd already be under too much pressure wearing those damn tights! Which by the way, is also why I wouldn't be Deadpool...well that and I don't want my body to be comprised of 200% cancer cells. I guess I could be Iron Man but all those suits smell like RDJ's piss.[/spoiler]
Roses are red. Violets are blue. Son!cs theories are crazy but we're all crazy too.[/quote]

I'm not telling that you should change your name, but I guess you and DDS can be a pair (in this game) ... I am not telling who is the wolf and who is "little red riding hood" ...
However since I don't see it clear and people are changing ... unvote vote Max [/quote]

OK so now he is saying that from his reaction test he thinks DDS and Strike are a pair, but doesn't know if they are masons or evil faction and the votes Max for no stated reason other than it is popular.

Boring.
Can we just lynch DDS FFS?

Why?

I don't say to lynch ... but we should in L-2 any of them!!
if we don't do it, I don't know what to do.
scum list:
1. strike wolf
2. DDS
3. Max

I am willing to follow any direction or indication.

He has some weird votes/unvotes but for brevity, he makes it clear this is his list now.

Something I think it is clear for me now it is that I was wrong and DDS should be clearly town, so I follow him
vote Kong

But... why?!

Why?

Why now I think you are townie and I was wrong? because they killed Strike and he was town and I felt you and him were in the same side.

why now I follow your decisions ? Because I see nobody in this moment more clearly townie than you.

why I think it is a good idea to vote Kong ? because he can be scum.

I correct
I thought Strike/DDS where a scum pair however it results they were townie (at least Strike) I still think they were a pair so this means DDS probably is townie ...

Now notice how incomprehensible this is. Strike was a vanilla townie, so he had zero connections. His update should have been , I was wrong, not now DDS is town and I follow him.

It makes no sense, and then he bandwagons me because "I can be scum", well so can anyone at that point from towns perspective! He is just looking for more bandwagon opportunities and that is why his logic is so off.

Vote Count:

Ragian (4) - PMC, DDS, Sonic, Max
Traf (2) - Ragian, LC

No Vote (3) - Traf, Pepe, EW

9 Alive - 5 needed for a lynch

Before monday and trying to give an oportunity to Rag (anyway I think there are people to hammer him, but if it is necesary I can change my vote).
vote Traf

Zero explanations, he is no longer talking about Max being scum, why? He goes along with the consensus on rag and will hammer him, why? He votes for Traf, why?

Bandwagons that aren't on his partner, that's why.

here monday did finish so, as Queen song says: 'show must go on'
I don't know if it is correct but sorry Rag (because I would prefer to lynch Traf, but now there is not other option
and perhaps you are town ... but it doesnt seem like it.
unvote vote Rag

Kills Rag already seemingly knowing it was wrong, without ever giving reason he suspected him. He would prefer to lynch traf, but he never gave any reason why we should do that, (Traf then dies, because EW had worked out traf was mafia).

Sonic,

EW may well have driven the Devante kill.
EW may well have persuaded any of us to go along with that.
I guess you are saying Max and Pepe are more easily led - I'll grant you a possibility/probability of that - but not necessarily.
What links Max more to that kill than Pepe?
What are you seeing that I'm not?

In fact I'm saying EW put enough pressure on my Max lynchwagon D1 that he couldn't have back off IF it had gathered more steam - and it might have done.
NO I can't see Max and EW linked at all at all.
It makes Max a bad vote for D3 because Max can only be linked with Traf.

Pepe on the other hand could be linked to EW, and there is also the evidence I am seeing that Pepe and Traf are linked.

Pepe is a much stronger vote than Max.

Vote Pepe

Just to the reminder ... I suspect about LC linked with Traf
keep it in mind if you lynch to me.

LC votes Pepe and suddenly Pepe thinks LC is linked with traf. Perhaps this is a language mistake, but he says "reminder " despite never having said anything about this before. He states this without reason as is standard for him this game. It may be a genuine feeling here, perhaps EW and him talked about that being a link out of game chat, but to me, this just seems like when sonic went for me; attempts at self preservation.

Loose claimed and there's no counter-claim. I changed my mind, maybe claiming was a good move.
I also think the other mason should claim as well.

Think about it Town; if two players claim mason, they can't be a scum pair because, well, there's no scum pair anymore. And if there's still no counterclaim, we can safely assume that Loose and whoever is the secon mason are indeed Town, and at least we'll know who NOT to lynch.

Very scum ... why do you need to know who is the other Mason?

vote Max

Pepe gets a big read on Max being scum, his first of the game that comes with a reason that I can understand.

From my perspective there are 2 scums and 2 towns and I think the probabilities are:
adding up to 200% if I had to bet:
-Max 80% scum
-PMC 60% scum
-Sonic 30% scum
-DDS 30% scum
-LC 0% scum

So for me Sonic has 2/3 chance to be town.

Clearly stated Max is his favourite.

double surprise!!
LC was right about Sonic.
DDS was the Mason.

Well I guess the game is almost ready and probably Max is going to win.
Vote Max

@Charle congratulations.

Today comes he thinks it's Max, note it can no longer be both of us.

Vote Count:

Max (1) - Pepe
PMC (1) - Max

No Vote (2) - Loose, PMC

With 4 alive, 3 votes needed for a lynch!

PS: This is the last day, there will not be a night, if town lynch wolf, town wins, if town miss lynch, Wolves wins!

We could also vote no lynch and then there would be a night.

I think it is a bad idea ... I thought Max was the main suspect but this makes me change my mind
unvote vote PMC

What really made him change his mind is the vote count, I am suspecting him over Max, Max is voting for me, LC is considering me and not Max. He changes his vote for tactical win reasons. Max was his top suspect for days, he was sure he was scum etc and he changes it based on the votes not on some BS about no lynching.

In summary, Pepe's votes have been unreasoned, bandwagonny and curiously aligned with his self interests. EW ignored him amd he ignored EW. He is much less comfortable in this game than when he was town and has went conveniently quiet since it would appear he would win. Finally, no one can explain why if I was partners with EW I would have tried to get him night killed.

I leave it in your hands LC and Max.

[PepeAtila]

PMC, do you really think that by manipulating the entire text you are going to change things and persuade us all?

[pmchugh]

Pepes whole argument is,

Pmc says words, and words are scummy. He doesn't explain his thinking, he doesn't question mine, because he cant. My reasonings are true and Pepe is the last remaining wolf.

[pmchugh]

Trying to convince people to vote correctly is not scummy, it is my obligation as a townie who knows who the last scum is.

[Charle]

No majority vote by deadline.

It is now Night 4. Day 5 will start as soon as I received instruction from the Wolf.

Please not more posts until I announce day 5.

[Charle]

The Wolf decided to kill Loose Canon who was Town Mason.

It is now day 5.

With 3 alive, 2 needed for a kill.

[Maxleod]

f*ck it. Let's get this over with.

Vote pmc

[PepeAtila]

vote PMC

[Charle]

With 2 Votes, PMC is lynched - pmchugh was Vanilla Town

Wolves won this game!! Well done wolves (EW and Pepe)

I must say, PMC did what he could, all the investigations, etc., he did his best to try and save TOWN who had the game basically bagged with two live masons who just could not pull it off!!

Anyway, hope you guys enjoyed it and thanks for playing

[Ragian]

I guess it's madmitch reincarnated. Well played, pmc.

[strike wolf]

Gg Pepe. Honestly, though, there was no reason town should have lost this game except for Max deciding that PMC must be scum and being stubborn about it even though the facts did not add up. There was no universe where he would openly call for the other mafia team to kill EW if they were aligned in this game. That alone should have proven that PMC was town. Also if you stopped to think for a moment on that last day, you may have realized that PMC would not have killed Loose. Loose was persuadable. Even if PMC was scum and killing Max looked more incriminating, he would have needed to go for the kill on you, Max because you had not shown any evidence you could be persuaded away from voting him. Killing Loose was 100% what Pepe does in that situation.

[Loose Canon]

Ok Good Game, Well Played Pepe and EW.

A bit gutting that Town lost but To be fair it was a very Close Call, and Easy to be Wise after the event

[SoN!c]

Hell of a game Loose Canon and PMC and congratz to the winners!

[SoN!c]

And great job Charle!

[Loose Canon]

Yes gg and thanks Charle.

Admit it though you you're lobbying Trump to be an election official.

[Extreme Ways]

gg everyone!

Pepe played very well to his wincon that final day. Having both masons + backup mason be alive with both the wolf and scum in sight... I thought (and by all accounts I think it should have been) it was over

[PepeAtila]

Gg Pepe. Honestly, though, there was no reason town should have lost this game except for Max deciding that PMC must be scum and being stubborn about it even though the facts did not add up. There was no universe where he would openly call for the other mafia team to kill EW if they were aligned in this game. That alone should have proven that PMC was town. Also if you stopped to think for a moment on that last day, you may have realized that PMC would not have killed Loose. Loose was persuadable. Even if PMC was scum and killing Max looked more incriminating, he would have needed to go for the kill on you, Max because you had not shown any evidence you could be persuaded away from voting him. Killing Loose was 100% what Pepe does in that situation.

Thank you, it was harder than it seems. Look at the last day and how LC was modifying the percentages.

I am sorry Max...

Great job Charle
Also Sonic and PMC did a hard work ...
and I hope you all enjoyed the game.

[DirtyDishSoap]

I guess it's madmitch reincarnated. Well played, pmc.

LOL

[DirtyDishSoap]

Gg Pepe. Honestly, though, there was no reason town should have lost this game except for Max deciding that PMC must be scum and being stubborn about it even though the facts did not add up. There was no universe where he would openly call for the other mafia team to kill EW if they were aligned in this game. That alone should have proven that PMC was town. Also if you stopped to think for a moment on that last day, you may have realized that PMC would not have killed Loose. Loose was persuadable. Even if PMC was scum and killing Max looked more incriminating, he would have needed to go for the kill on you, Max because you had not shown any evidence you could be persuaded away from voting him. Killing Loose was 100% what Pepe does in that situation.

This x100